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	<title>20 gram Soul &#187; definitions</title>
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		<title>Soft Atheist, Hard Agnostic</title>
		<link>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/07/15/soft-atheist-hard-agnostic/</link>
		<comments>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/07/15/soft-atheist-hard-agnostic/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2007 07:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Sunday Skeptic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[agnosticism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[belief]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[definitions]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[god]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[philosophy]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20gramsoul.com/2007/07/15/soft-atheist-hard-agnostic/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Welcome Stumblers! This post seems to keep getting &#8220;stumbled&#8221; upon, so I just thought I&#8217;d leave this note to say, &#8220;Hi&#8221;, and please feel free to check out some of my other posts &#8211; the most popular ones are listed down the side of this page. Also feel free to subscribe via RSS if you [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em><strong>Welcome <a href="http://www.stumbleupon.com" title="Stumble Upon" class="stumbleupon">Stumblers</a></strong>!<a href="http://www.stumbleupon.com" title="Stumble Upon"> </a>This post seems to keep getting &#8220;stumbled&#8221; upon, so I just thought I&#8217;d leave this note to say, &#8220;Hi&#8221;, and please feel free to check out some of my other posts &#8211; the most popular ones are listed down the side of this page. Also feel free to <a href="http://20gramsoul.com/feed/" title="20 gram Soul RSS" class="rss">subscribe via RSS</a> if you like what you read. Also, I welcome <a href="http://20gramsoul.com/wp-admin/post.php#comments" title="Comments for this post" class="comments">comments/criticisms</a>, so don&#8217;t be shy!</em></p>
<p><img src="http://20gramsoul.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/6thcenturysinaijesus-200px.jpg" alt="6th Century Sinai Jesus" style="float: left" />While I was watching a documentary on the <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/11_november/09/god.shtml" title="Robert Winston presents The Story of God">history of religion</a> recently, my sister said to me &#8220;but aren&#8217;t you an Atheist?&#8221;<sup>1</sup> At the time I replied, &#8220;no, I&#8217;m Agnostic&#8221;. It has made me think, however, about the nature of Atheism and Agnosticism.</p>
<p>While I generally describe myself as &#8220;agnostic&#8221;, and avoid describing myself as &#8220;atheist&#8221;, I could be viewed as both, depending on your definitions. As there seem to be many different views on what <a href="http://midwesterngentleman.wordpress.com/2007/06/10/letting-go-of-god/" title="Letting Go of God @ Midwestern Gentleman">Atheism</a> and <a href="http://www.neuralgourmet.com/2006/05/05/putting_the_misconception_to_bed_why_atheism_and_agnosticism_are_not_mutually_exclusive" title="Putting the Misconception to Bed: Why Atheism and Agnosticism are not Mutually Exclusive @ Neural Gourmet">Agnosticism</a> entails, let me be very clear about what I take the meaning of these words to be.</p>
<h1>Belief</h1>
<p>Definitions for both Atheism and Agnosticism rely on the notion of &#8220;belief&#8221;, which itself can be contentious at times. For my purposes, when I say &#8220;belief&#8221;, I refer &#8220;to the attitude we have, roughly, whenever we take something to be the case or regard it as true&#8221;<sup>2</sup> Belief, here, does not imply any lack of certainty &#8211; even though it might sometimes in common usage.</p>
<h1>Atheism</h1>
<p>Atheism, it seems, can mean many things &#8211; but broadly it seems to fit one of two definitions:</p>
<ol>
<li>the doctrine or belief that there is no God<sup>3</sup>, or</li>
<li>a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods<sup>4</sup></li>
</ol>
<p>The first definition is the one which I had always taken (I&#8217;ll call this &#8220;hard&#8221; Atheism), and it is why I have never described myself as an &#8220;Atheist&#8221;. To me, to hold a belief that these is <em>no</em> god is just as illogical as a belief that there <em>is</em> a God &#8211; possibly even more so. While it may (hypothetically) be possible one day to prove that there is a God (perhaps he shows himself in some incontestable way, or we find a scientific method for exploring &#8220;heaven&#8221;) proving the universal non-existence of something is impossible (we can prove something doesn&#8217;t exist in one place &#8211; say, a box that&#8217;s empty &#8211; but proving universal non-existence is very different).</p>
<p>The second (&#8220;soft&#8221;) definition of Atheism, however, is one I&#8217;d not been aware of until the last year or so. It seems this definition is common among Atheists, but in my experience it is certainly not the generally understood definition of Atheism. In this definition, Atheism is not the opposite to theism or religion, but an absence of it. It is in this sense that I am an Atheist, although without qualification, I still feel the word &#8220;atheist&#8221; misrepresents my views.</p>
<h1>Agnosticism</h1>
<p>This is where we get to Agnosticism. Agnostic means, literally, &#8220;without knowledge&#8221; and as such an Agnostic holds they they have no knowledge about the existence of God. This is not necessarily a &#8220;fence sitting&#8221; position, however, as Agnosticism (like Atheism) can be viewed in two subtly different ways:</p>
<ol>
<li>a religious orientation of doubt<sup>5</sup>, or</li>
<li>a denial of ultimate knowledge of the existence of God<sup>6</sup></li>
</ol>
<p>Certainly using this first definition (&#8220;soft&#8221; agnosticism), one could argue that the holder of this world-view is &#8220;fence sitting&#8221; &#8211; possibly still exploring or reasoning to discover the truth, or perhaps unable or unwilling to. But again, the second definition offers an entirely different position. A &#8220;hard&#8221; agnostic does not simply doubt the existence of God (and may, in fact, have faith that there <em>is</em> a God) but makes the claim that it is impossible to ever know if God does or does not exist.</p>
<p>When I describe myself as &#8220;Agnostic&#8221;, I make the claim that it is impossible to know if any of the Gods described by traditional religions exist. I am also, however, open to the idea that perhaps &#8220;God&#8221; (<em>if</em> he exists) is <a href="http://20gramsoul.com/2007/06/17/how-rudy-rucker-showed-me-god/" title="How Rudy Rucker Showed Me God">nothing like that described by traditional religion</a>, and therefore may one day be provable. For me, the problem with the traditional notions of God are that proponents of these Gods leave no way to ever truly prove his existence &#8211; as the Hitchhiker&#8217;s Guide to the Galaxy joke goes:</p>
<blockquote><p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html%3FASIN=0345391802%26tag=20gramsoul-20%26lcode=xm2%26cID=2025%26ccmID=165953%26location=/o/ASIN/0345391802%253FSubscriptionId=1N9AHEAQ2F6SVD97BE02" title="Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy @ Amazon"><img src="http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/31SQ0MX3ZWL.jpg" style="float: right" width="97" /></a>&#8220;I refuse to prove that I exist,&#8221; says God, &#8220;for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;But,&#8221; says Man, &#8220;The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn&#8217;t it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don&#8217;t. QED.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Oh dear,&#8221; says God, &#8220;I hadn&#8217;t thought of that,&#8221; and promptly disappears in a puff of logic.</p></blockquote>
<p>The Christian God, therefore, will always be out of the reach of science because as soon as it becomes answerable by science (no matter what the outcome), God will be relegated (by some, at least) to an even further &#8220;far away place &#8221; so as to ensure the existence of God can never be proven.</p>
<p>So in this sense, I am a &#8220;hard&#8221; agnostic when it comes to Gods like that of Christianity (only because no one is willing to say exactly <em>where</em> this God might exist) but a &#8220;soft&#8221; agnostic when it comes to other possible higher powers. Either way, the existence of any such higher power seems unlikely (but certainly not impossible).</p>
<ol class="footnotes"><li id="footnote_0_50" class="footnote">I&#8217;ll ignore the obvious issue with the suggestion that Atheists aren&#8217;t allowed to have an interest in religion&#8230; for now.</li><li id="footnote_1_50" class="footnote">Schwitzgebel, Eric, &#8220;<a href="http://plato.stanford.edu/archives/fall2006/entries/belief/" title="Belief @ The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy">Belief</a>&#8220;, The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (Fall 2006 Edition), Edward N. Zalta (ed.).</li><li id="footnote_2_50" class="footnote"><a href="http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=atheism" title="WordNet Definition for 'Atheism'">WordNet Definition: Atheism</a></li><li id="footnote_3_50" class="footnote"><a href="http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=atheism" title="WordNet Definition for 'Atheism'">WordNet Definition: Atheism</a></li><li id="footnote_4_50" class="footnote"><a href="http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=agnosticism" title="WordNet Definition for 'Agnosticism'">WordNet Definition: Agnosticism</a></li><li id="footnote_5_50" class="footnote"><a href="http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=agnosticism" title="WordNet Definition for 'Agnosticism'">WordNet Definition: Agnosticism</a></li></ol><img src="http://20gramsoul.com/?ak_action=api_record_view&id=50&type=feed" alt="" />]]></content:encoded>
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		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Religion vs Christianity</title>
		<link>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/07/12/religion-vs-christianity/</link>
		<comments>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/07/12/religion-vs-christianity/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2007 04:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[General]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[belief]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[definitions]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[evangelism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20gramsoul.com/2007/07/12/religion-vs-christianity/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#8217;s a concept I hadn&#8217;t come across before &#8211; an irreligious Christian. The post at DeConversion centres around the quote from an apparently irreligious Christian: &#8220;Christianity is not about a religion… Christianity is about a relationship…&#8221; I even recall myself saying, on probably more than one occasion, &#8220;I&#8217;m not religious, I’m a Christian.&#8221; While &#8220;Thinking [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a concept I hadn&#8217;t come across before &#8211; an <a href="http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/11/im-not-religious-im-a-christian/" title="I'm Not Religions, I'm a Christian @ DeConversion">irreligious Christian</a>. The post at DeConversion centres around the quote from an apparently irreligious Christian:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Christianity is not about a religion… Christianity is about a relationship…&#8221; I even recall myself saying, on probably more than one occasion, &#8220;I&#8217;m not religious, I’m a Christian.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p><img src="http://20gramsoul.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/saintagathangelus-200px.jpg" alt="Saint Agathangelus" style="float: left" />While &#8220;Thinking Ape&#8221; claims this person is being dishonest about their religion, I think it is (at least in principle) possible to distinguish between the two. Religion, according to one definition is &#8220;an institution to express belief in a divine power&#8221;<sup>1</sup>. By this definition, perhaps &#8220;the church&#8221; and &#8220;religion&#8221; would be synonymous. My major gripe with religion has always been the institution associated along with it &#8211; sure, the beliefs are almost certainly delusional as well, but the beliefs alone (in my view) don&#8217;t cause any harm.  It&#8217;s for this same reason that <a href="http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/06/09/newsweek-reports-on-atheist-controversy/#comment-40189" title="My Comment on the Atheist Controversy @ Friendly Atheist">I disagree with organised atheist evangelism</a>.</p>
<p>For me, the first step away from religion (although I was never raised in a particularly religious family) was when I rejected organised religion. I was inclined to think that, while the beliefs <em>may</em><sup>2</sup> have been true, the institutionalisation and control from the Church was problematic. An irreligious Christian would, I imagine, reject the various denominations of Christian churches, like I did. They would also not necessarily accept the interpretations of any one denomination, and would (hopefully) be more open to semi-rational thought.</p>
<p>I say, good on them. Sure, it&#8217;s not ideal, but at least it&#8217;s a step in the right direction.</p>
<p><strong>Link</strong>: <a href="http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/11/im-not-religious-im-a-christian/" title="I'm Not Religions, I'm a Christian @ DeConversion">I&#8217;m not religious, I&#8217;m Christian</a> (DeConversion)</p>
<ol class="footnotes"><li id="footnote_0_62" class="footnote">Princeton WordNet, <a href="http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=religion">Religion</a></li><li id="footnote_1_62" class="footnote">I never did, and still don&#8217;t &#8220;believe&#8221;</li></ol><img src="http://20gramsoul.com/?ak_action=api_record_view&id=62&type=feed" alt="" />]]></content:encoded>
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