<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:wfw="http://wellformedweb.org/CommentAPI/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:slash="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/slash/"
	>

<channel>
	<title>20 gram Soul &#187; atheism</title>
	<atom:link href="http://20gramsoul.com/tags/atheism/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://20gramsoul.com</link>
	<description>Friendly outgoing eclectic agnostic seeks one gram of soul</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:27:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<language>en</language>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator>
		<item>
		<title>Organised Atheism</title>
		<link>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/10/21/organised-atheism/</link>
		<comments>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/10/21/organised-atheism/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[General]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[abba]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[belief]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[chocolate]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[coming-out]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[god]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[labels]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[nothing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[richard-dawkins]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[sam-harris]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[spice-girls]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20gramsoul.com/2007/10/21/organised-atheism/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#8217;ve been holding off talking about Richard Dawkins&#8217; &#8220;Out Campaign&#8221; for a while (yes, it&#8217;s probably all died down by now &#8211; you&#8217;ve either got a scarlet &#8220;A&#8221; on your t-shirt, website, car and baby, or you don&#8217;t) because I still haven&#8217;t figured out what I really think about it. On one hand, I applaud [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://digg.com/music/There_is_no_God_Spice_Girls_are_back_together_again_announce_reunion" title="There is no God: Spice Girls are Back Together Again @ Digg"><img src="http://20gramsoul.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/nospicegirlst-320x200.png" title="There is no God: Spice Girls are Back Together Again @ Digg" alt="There is no God: Spice Girls are Back Together Again @ Digg" style="float: right" height="200" width="200" /></a>I&#8217;ve been holding off talking about <a href="http://outcampaign.org/" title="OutCampaign.org">Richard Dawkins&#8217; &#8220;Out Campaign&#8221;</a> for a while (yes, it&#8217;s probably all died down by now &#8211; you&#8217;ve either got a scarlet &#8220;A&#8221; on your t-shirt, website, car and baby, or you don&#8217;t) because I still haven&#8217;t figured out what I really think about it.  On one hand, I applaud the effort to bring atheists together and to &#8220;out&#8221; themselves, but on the other, I <a href="http://20gramsoul.com/2007/07/30/atheist-as-a-label/" title="Atheist as a Label @ 20 gram Soul">still see the label &#8220;Atheist&#8221; as useful as &#8220;non-chocolate lover&#8221;</a> or non-spice girls fan<sup>1</sup>.</p>
<p>Of course, the use of the word &#8220;atheist&#8221; (and therefore the need to &#8220;out&#8221; oneself) has been stirred up recently by <a href="http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/01/atheist-alliance-international-convention-2007-recap/" title="Atheist Alliance Recap @ Friendly Atheist">Sam Harris at an Atheist Alliance</a> conference in Washington<sup>2</sup> &#8211; there are no &#8220;non-racists&#8221;, so &#8220;why are we defining ourselves by something that should simply be the case&#8221;<sup>3</sup>?</p>
<p>Every political or social group have certain beliefs and/or interests in common. A football team shares a love of sports, and possibly a belief that football is a worthwhile pursuit. A political group might share certain values and beliefs about how a society should function. A religion, well, they often share beliefs about a great many things: politics, sexuality, family values, etc. But more importantly &#8211; they share a belief in a supernatural being (or spirit, or afterlife, etc.).</p>
<p>What do atheists share? Nothing. Many of us can&#8217;t even agree on a <a href="http://20gramsoul.com/2007/07/15/soft-atheist-hard-agnostic/" title="Soft Atheist, Hard Agnostic @ 20 gram Soul">definition of Atheism</a>! I don&#8217;t mean to say that there&#8217;s nothing that we share, but what we <em>do</em> share is, quite literally, &#8220;nothing&#8221; &#8211; we share a nonexistent thing<sup>4</sup>: a lack of a belief in God. While this probably gives us a more common understanding of God than most religious people (even within the same religion or denomination, it seems every person has their own understanding of exactly what or who God is), this doesn&#8217;t seem to be a great foundation for an alliance.</p>
<p>Am I going to &#8220;come out&#8221;, well &#8211; yes, and no. I am without religion. I am, therefore, an atheist. I am also without racism, and am therefore non-racist. I have never killed anyone, and am therefore a non-murderer. I further have no love for chocolate<sup>5</sup>, no love of ABBA or the <a href="http://digg.com/music/There_is_no_God_Spice_Girls_are_back_together_again_announce_reunion" title="There is no God: Spice Girls are Back Together Again @ Digg">Spice Girls</a>  and most certainly no belief in fairies or celestial teapots. If you wish to define me by any of these &#8220;labels&#8221;, feel free &#8211; but I certainly don&#8217;t.</p>
<ol class="footnotes"><li id="footnote_0_88" class="footnote">Harris explains it much better than I could on <a href="http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/response-to-my-fellow-atheists/" title="Response to my Fellow 'Atheists' @ Sam Harris">his website</a></li><li id="footnote_1_88" class="footnote">Partial transcript available at <a href="http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/sam_harris/2007/10/the_problem_with_atheism.html">Washington Post</a></li><li id="footnote_2_88" class="footnote">Hemant Mehta (Oct 1, 2007) <a href="http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/01/atheist-alliance-international-convention-2007-recap/" title="Atheist Alliance International Convention (Recap) @ The Friendly Atheist">Atheist Alliance International Convention 2007 (Recap)</a></li><li id="footnote_3_88" class="footnote"><a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Anothing" title="Define: Nothing @ Google">Nothing</a> (n) A nonexistent thing</li><li id="footnote_4_88" class="footnote">I wonder if coming out as an atheist, or an non-chocoholic would create more of a stir?</li></ol><img src="http://20gramsoul.com/?ak_action=api_record_view&id=88&type=feed" alt="" />]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/10/21/organised-atheism/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>4</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Do Everything Like a Pirate</title>
		<link>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/09/19/do-everything-like-a-pirate/</link>
		<comments>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/09/19/do-everything-like-a-pirate/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Random]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[flickr]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[fsm]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[holiday]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[pastafarianism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[pirate]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[tlapd]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20gramsoul.com/2007/09/19/do-everything-like-a-pirate/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Today was the day when every good Pastafarian (and other pirate loving people) talks like a pirate.  I, however, am a non-practicing Pastafarian, so I don&#8217;t generally observe these religious holidays (there was a pub crawl at Uni to celebrate, but I had to work instead). But that should stop you getting in on the [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Today was the day when every good <a href="http://www.venganza.org/2007/09/19/talk-like-a-pirate-day-2.htm" title="Talk Like A Pirate Day, 2007 @ venganza.org">Pastafarian</a> (and other pirate loving people) <a href="http://www.talklikeapirateday.com/wordpress/?p=20" title="Talk Like A Pirate Day, 2007 @ talklikeapirateday.com">talks like a pirate</a>.  I, however, am a non-practicing Pastafarian, so I don&#8217;t generally observe these religious holidays (there was a pub crawl at Uni to celebrate, but I had to work instead).</p>
<p>But that should stop you getting in on the act! Even Flickr celebrated the day:</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.flickr.com/2007/09/19/here-there-be-dragons/" atomicselection="true"></p>
<p style="text-align: center"><img src="http://20gramsoul.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/flickrpirate.jpg" alt="FlickrPirate" /></p>
<p></a></p>
<p>If you didn&#8217;t talk like a pirate today, you&#8217;ve only got 364 days until the next time you can &#8220;talk like a pirate and not be entirely insane&#8221;.</p>
<p>So, I&#8217;ve been wondering &#8211; when are all the atheist holidays and festivities?</p>
<img src="http://20gramsoul.com/?ak_action=api_record_view&id=103&type=feed" alt="" />]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/09/19/do-everything-like-a-pirate/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Interested in God?</title>
		<link>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/09/02/interested-in-god/</link>
		<comments>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/09/02/interested-in-god/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Sep 2007 09:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Sunday Skeptic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[belief]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[friendly-christian]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[influence]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[interest]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[politics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[society]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20gramsoul.com/2007/09/02/interested-in-god/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I recently1 read a post by the Friendly Christian, who questioned why some people just &#8220;aren&#8217;t interested in God&#8221;. The suggestion is made that perhaps the Church isn&#8217;t friendly or welcoming enough, and that if they improved in this area, perhaps they&#8217;d win more converts. It&#8217;s certainly a valid criticism of most of the churches [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently<sup>1</sup> read a post by the <a href="http://www.friendlychristian.com/?p=152" title="I'm Just Not That Interested in God @ Friendly Christian">Friendly Christian</a>, who questioned why some people just &#8220;aren&#8217;t interested in God&#8221;. The suggestion is made that perhaps the Church isn&#8217;t friendly or welcoming enough, and that if they improved in this area, perhaps they&#8217;d win more converts.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s certainly a valid criticism of most of the churches I&#8217;ve gone to, as many Churches aren&#8217;t friendly to nonreligious people wanting to see what things are like. I&#8217;m utterly sick of people asking me &#8220;What church do you go to?&#8221;, and then seeing the look of shock on their face when I tell them I don&#8217;t go to any church, I&#8217;m not religious, or (worse!) if I was to use the word &#8220;atheist&#8221;.</p>
<p>The quote being discussed by the Friendly Christian is as follows:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;I’m not religious. I don’t think much about God, except when I am in a pinch and need some special favors. I have no particular reason to think he’ll deliver, but I sometimes take a shot anyway. Other than that, I’m just <em>not that interested</em> in God.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>This, to me, sounds like a person who has no reason to believe in God except for the simple fact that many others seem to have this belief. If one is raised in a society where God is almost universally accepted, if one made no effort to actively think about God, what possible conclusions <em>could</em> that person come to?</p>
<p>This is where I think the Friendly Christian has got it wrong. This person doesn&#8217;t sound like someone who&#8217;s been shunned by the church, but someone who (quite legitimately, in my opinion) has no interest in God because <em>the idea has little or no influence on their life</em>. In an ideal world (one where personal beliefs in supernatural beings remained personal &#8211; in the sense that your beliefs were unable to affect my way of life), I think such a lack of interest in God would be quite common.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not to say an interest in God is a bad thing, however. As you might have discovered, however, I <em>do</em> have an interest in religion and the concepts of God. These ideas <em>do</em> have an influence on my life because our <a href="http://20gramsoul.com/2007/08/20/politics-and-religion-down-under/" title="Politics and Religion Down Under @ 20 gram Soul">politicians make them relevant</a>, and because I want to understand why so many people have these beliefs. I find the idea of God interesting from a historical and cultural point of view, and want to learn more.</p>
<p>Are you interested in God? If not, why not?</p>
<ol class="footnotes"><li id="footnote_0_89" class="footnote">Well, not so recently, but it was recently when I first drafted this post. As you can probably tell if you&#8217;ve been subscribing to my blog, I&#8217;ve been quite slack recently. I won&#8217;t bore you with the personal details, but lets just say there&#8217;s been a lot on my plate. My apologies, and I&#8217;ll hopefully get back to a more reasonable blogging schedule again now.</li></ol><img src="http://20gramsoul.com/?ak_action=api_record_view&id=89&type=feed" alt="" />]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/09/02/interested-in-god/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>1</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Make a Difference in the 2007 Election</title>
		<link>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/08/24/make-a-difference-in-the-2007-election/</link>
		<comments>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/08/24/make-a-difference-in-the-2007-election/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[General]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[australia]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[election]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[frank-gomez]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[freedom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[help]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[membership]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[politics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[secular]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[vote]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20gramsoul.com/2007/08/24/make-a-difference-in-the-2007-election/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Update (26/08): Thanks to all of you who are spreading the word, with any luck they&#8217;ll get their required members through this post alone! Two points to clarify: This post was in no way authorised or endorsed by the party &#8211; it&#8217;s just my way of trying to help out. If you&#8217;re not eligible to [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><em><strong>Update (26/08):</strong></em> Thanks to all of you who are spreading the word, with any luck they&#8217;ll get their required members through this post alone! Two points to clarify:</p>
<ol>
<li>This post was in no way authorised or endorsed by the party &#8211; it&#8217;s just my way of trying to help out.</li>
<li>If you&#8217;re not eligible to vote in Australia, don&#8217;t try and join up, but help spread the word if you know other Aussie Atheists.</li>
</ol>
</blockquote>
<p>Hey all you Aussies out there (if you&#8217;re not an Aussie, keep reading, you might still be able to help by spreading the word),</p>
<p>I recently received an email from Frank Gomez of the <a href="http://www.secular.org.au" title="Secular Party of Australia">Secular Party of Australia</a> (previously the Freedom from Religion Party), which I wanted to get your help with. Members of the Secular Party are hoping to run in this year&#8217;s election, but as the party doesn&#8217;t have enough members yet, they&#8217;ll need to run as independents, giving them a much lower chance of success.</p>
<p>All you need to do, if you want to help, is to fill out and mail (yes, snail mail) in the form below to join the party &#8211; membership is free. For 20 seconds of your time, and the cost of a 50c stamp, you could help Atheists get a stronger voice in Australian parliament.</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/applicationform.pdf" title="Application for Membership: The Secular Party of Australia" class="pdf">Secular Party of Australia Membership Application</a></li>
</ul>
<p>Perhaps if you&#8217;re not an Aussie yourself, but might have Australian readers on your own blog, or know of some Aussie Atheists? Please help get the word out there, either direct them to this blog, or post something on your own blog if you can!</p>
<p>If anyone&#8217;s interested, I&#8217;m posting the full text of the email below.</p>
<blockquote><p>Hi members and supporters,</p>
<p>The party&#8217;s executive has decided to contest this year&#8217;s Federal election.  However, as we do not have the numbers yet to register as a party, candidates will have to run as independents.   This means that we cannot use the words &#8220;Secular&#8221; or &#8220;Freedom From Religion&#8221; on ballot papers.</p>
<p>I am writing to all of you because we need your membership of the party to be official so that it can count for registration.</p>
<p>I have attached a membership form, and for those of you for whom I have a postal address you will receive (or may have already have received) these in the mail also.</p>
<p>I urge you all to complete and send back the attached form to the below address.</p>
<p>I also wish to ask you whether you know someone else who would be interested in joining.</p>
<p>We currently have around 300 members and need only 200 more in order to register as a party for this year&#8217;s election.  Registering the party would mean being able to use the party&#8217;s name and abbreviations in how to vote cards and ballot papers, and would increase out vote many fold.</p>
<p>If every member of the party sent back two forms &#8211; their own and for someone else &#8211;  then we would reach the 500 we need in a matter of weeks.</p>
<p>Otherwise we need to wait another 3 years to contest as a registered party.  That&#8217;s another 3 years of more religion in politics &#8211; whoever wins the election.  MAKE A DIFFERENCE !!</p>
<p>FRANK GOMEZ<br />
SECULAR PARTY  <a href="http://www.secular.org.au">www.secular.org.au</a><br />
NATIONAL VICE-PRESIDENT<br />
19 Fishers Reserve<br />
Petersham NSW 2049</p></blockquote>
<img src="http://20gramsoul.com/?ak_action=api_record_view&id=97&type=feed" alt="" />]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/08/24/make-a-difference-in-the-2007-election/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>8</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Question Your Candidates</title>
		<link>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/08/18/question-your-candidates/</link>
		<comments>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/08/18/question-your-candidates/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2007 01:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[General]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[creationism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[debate]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[evolution]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[politics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[president]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[republican]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[usa]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[youtube]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20gramsoul.com/2007/08/18/question-your-candidates/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Looks like YouTube is taking submissions for an upcoming presidential candidate debate. Link to Video I can&#8217;t imagine the atheist community would have anything important to confront them about? (*cough* evolution *cough*) Anyone skilled with a camera, and able to present a good case in 30 seconds or so? If you&#8217;ve got some ideas, check [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like YouTube is taking submissions for an upcoming presidential candidate debate.</p>
<p><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cT1L6mw74_I"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cT1L6mw74_I" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object></p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT1L6mw74_I">Link to Video</a></p>
<p>I can&#8217;t imagine the atheist community would have anything important to confront them about? (*cough* evolution *cough*) Anyone skilled with a camera, and able to present a good case in 30 seconds or so?</p>
<p>If you&#8217;ve got some ideas, check out <a href="http://www.youtube.com/debates" title="YouTube - What will YOU ask the REPUBLICAN presidential candidates?">http://www.youtube.com/debates</a></p>
<p>(via <a href="http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/17/1939200&amp;from=rss" title="Putting Anti-Evolution Candidates On The Spot @ Slashdot">Slashdot</a>)</p>
<img src="http://20gramsoul.com/?ak_action=api_record_view&id=93&type=feed" alt="" />]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/08/18/question-your-candidates/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Objective Morality</title>
		<link>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/08/14/objective-morality/</link>
		<comments>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/08/14/objective-morality/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2007 14:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Sunday Skeptic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[10commandments]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[argument]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ethics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[morality]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[richard-dawkins]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20gramsoul.com/2007/08/14/objective-morality/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I hadn&#8217;t really come across the argument from morality much before &#8211; at least not enough to seriously think about it. I&#8217;d heard people ask &#8220;if you don&#8217;t believe in God, then where do your morals come from?&#8221;, but rather than answer the question (I&#8217;d say honestly &#8220;I don&#8217;t know&#8221;), I&#8217;d retort with the observation [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hadn&#8217;t really come across the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_morality" title="Argument From Morality @ Wikipedia">argument from morality</a> much before &#8211; at least not enough to seriously think about it. I&#8217;d heard people ask &#8220;if you don&#8217;t believe in God, then where do your morals come from?&#8221;, but <a href="http://pspruett.blogspot.com/2007/07/moral-atheists-good-by-what-measure.html" title="Moral Atheists - Good By What Measure @  P. S. Pruett">rather than answer the question</a> (I&#8217;d say honestly &#8220;I don&#8217;t know&#8221;), I&#8217;d retort with the observation that Christians &#8220;pick and choose&#8221; their morals from the bible, and clearly their morals come from the same place as mine &#8211; and it&#8217;s not the bible (an idea I&#8217;d always had, but one that Dawkins helped me articulate).</p>
<p>For those not familiar with the argument from morality, it basically goes like this<sup>1</sup>:</p>
<ol>
<li>
<p align="justify">If God does not exist, then there are no objective (i.e. independent of human opinion) moral values and duties.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p align="justify">There are objective moral values and duties.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p align="justify">Therefore God exists.</p>
</li>
</ol>
<p>My gut instinct when I first thought about this argument is that the first point has issues. I&#8217;ve asserted before that we can have morality without religion<sup>2</sup>, and I still believe that a moral code independent of religion is superior, but as for <em>where</em> this morality could come from &#8211; I have no idea. I seem to remember Dawkins talking about how morality could have evolved, but that wouldn&#8217;t be objective morality, would it?</p>
<p>Which as got me thinking about the idea of objective morality as a whole, and I can&#8217;t help but ask &#8211; <em>do</em> we really have objective morality (point 2)? <a href="http://goosetheantithesis.blogspot.com/2007/08/dr-craig-meets-dr-zach.html" title="Dr Craig Meets Dr Zach @ Goosing the Antithesis">Zach Moore</a> says that, at least at a <strike>debate</strike> lecture he attended, the idea the objective morality exists seems to be generally accepted, but I can&#8217;t help but feel that there&#8217;s something wrong with that, too.</p>
<p>What morals do we have that are objective? <em>&#8220;Murder is bad&#8221;</em> &#8211; Surely there&#8217;s some times it&#8217;s justified<sup>3</sup>? <em>&#8220;Do no harm&#8221;</em> &#8211; but what if <em>my</em> survival is at stake? <em>&#8220;Do the greatest Good&#8221;</em> &#8211; but, what IS good? Even the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethic_of_reciprocity" title="Ethic of Reciprocity @ Wikipedia">golden rule</a> isn&#8217;t objective (although the rule itself seems to be the most universal law of morality) &#8211; &#8220;do unto others as you&#8217;d have them do unto you&#8221; relies on our own opinions! Perhaps I really wouldn&#8217;t care if you stole my girlfriend?<sup>4</sup></p>
<p>Do we really have objective morals? If so, what?</p>
<ol class="footnotes"><li id="footnote_0_90" class="footnote">Moore, Zachary (2007)  <a href="http://goosetheantithesis.blogspot.com/2007/08/dr-craig-meets-dr-zach.html" title="Dr Craig Meets Dr Zach @ Goosing the Antithesis">Dr. Craig Meets Dr. Zach</a></li><li id="footnote_1_90" class="footnote">See my <a href="http://20gramsoul.com/2007/06/24/religion-based-morality-1/" title="Morality Part 1: God Hating Atheists @ 20 gram Soul">three</a> <a href="http://20gramsoul.com/2007/07/01/religion-based-morality-2/" title="Morality Part 2: Immoral Religion">part</a> <a href="http://20gramsoul.com/2007/07/08/religion-based-morality-3/" title="Morality Part 3: Non-Theistic Morality">series</a> on morality.</li><li id="footnote_2_90" class="footnote">or is that just when we don&#8217;t call it murder?</li><li id="footnote_3_90" class="footnote">Try it, and I&#8217;ll kill you! <img src='http://20gramsoul.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  </li></ol><img src="http://20gramsoul.com/?ak_action=api_record_view&id=90&type=feed" alt="" />]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/08/14/objective-morality/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>13</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Scott Adams, Again</title>
		<link>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/08/08/scott-adams-again/</link>
		<comments>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/08/08/scott-adams-again/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 22:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[General]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[dilbert]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[scott-adams]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[stupidity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[thought-experiments]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20gramsoul.com/2007/08/08/scott-adams-again/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#8217;m really struggling with the fact that Scott Adams continues to display a dogmaticly ignorant view of atheism. I realise he&#8217;s generally writing just to stir people up (or, as the about atheism blog describes it: trolling), but that doesn&#8217;t make it acceptable. I like Dilbert. I often enjoy Scott Adams&#8217; blog posts, because they [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m really struggling with the fact that Scott Adams continues to display a <a href="http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/08/poster-child-fo.html" title="Poster Child for Cognitive Dissonance @ The Dilbert Blog">dogmaticly ignorant view of atheism</a>. I realise he&#8217;s generally writing just to stir people up (or, as the <a href="http://atheism.about.com/b/a/259315.htm" title="Pointy-Haired Cartoonist @ About Atheism">about atheism blog</a> describes it: trolling), but that doesn&#8217;t make it acceptable.</p>
<p><img src="http://20gramsoul.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/dilbert.jpg" alt="Dilbert" style="float: left" />I like Dilbert. I often enjoy Scott Adams&#8217; blog posts, because they <em>do</em> make you think. Sometimes he actually comes up with some really good thought experiments. As another commenter <a href="http://20gramsoul.com/2007/07/30/scott-adams-on-atheism/#comment-200" title="Scott Adams on Atheism @ 20 gram Soul">on my blog</a> wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>I always liked thought experiments that went beyond &#8220;I saw the flaws in this argument when I was three years old.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>If he stayed away from things he clearly has no idea about, or actually took on board someone else&#8217;s opinion every now and then,  it would be fine. But I&#8217;m finding it harder and harder to stay away from the &#8220;unsubscribe&#8221; button&#8230;</p>
<img src="http://20gramsoul.com/?ak_action=api_record_view&id=84&type=feed" alt="" />]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/08/08/scott-adams-again/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>20 gram Links for July 31st &#8217;07</title>
		<link>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/08/01/20-gram-links-for-july-31st-07/</link>
		<comments>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/08/01/20-gram-links-for-july-31st-07/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Aug 2007 00:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>del.icio.us</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Links]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[buddhism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[cat]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[catholicism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christian]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[comparison]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[computer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[creationism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[death]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ethics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[evolution]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[god]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[humour]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[lolcats]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[morality]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[programming]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[proof]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[simulation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[soul]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[starwars]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[summary]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[translation]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20gramsoul.com/2007/08/01/20-gram-links-for-july-31st-07/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here are some of the sites I&#8217;ve been looking at recently, that I wanted to share: 7 Proofs That We Live in a Computer Simulation &#8211; or Why Proofs of Gods Existance Are Unconvicing Why I took so long to accept evolution &#8211; a.k.a. Why every christian should read their own bible. &#8220;part of what [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are some of the sites I&#8217;ve been looking at recently, that I wanted to share:</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.originblog.com/2007/07/30/7-proofs-that-we-live-in-a-computer-simulation/">7 Proofs That We Live in a Computer Simulation</a> &#8211; or Why Proofs of Gods Existance Are Unconvicing</li>
<li><a href="http://blueollie.wordpress.com/2007/07/30/why-i-took-so-long-to-accept-evolution/">Why I took so long to accept evolution</a> &#8211; a.k.a. Why every christian should read their own bible. &#8220;part of what helped me along was actually reading the Bible in high school, being horrified by much of it&#8221;</li>
<li><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2007/07/i_can_has_souls.php">denialism blog : I can has souls?</a> &#8211; There is a god, and it&#8217;s a cat.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.acme.com/jef/religion_sex/">Religion and Sexual Ethics</a> &#8211; A nice summary of the moral position of various religions. Interesting to compare catholicism and buddhism side by side! (I think I&#8217;m with the Buddhists, here)</li>
<li><a href="http://towelianism.wordpress.com/2007/07/19/lolcat-bible/">LOL cat Bible</a> &#8211; Personally, I hate this pathetic LOLspeak crap, although this picture is funny&#8230; &#8220;In teh beginning, Invisible Man make univerz. Invisible Man say, I can has light. Gots light.&#8221;</li>
</ul>
<img src="http://20gramsoul.com/?ak_action=api_record_view&id=75&type=feed" alt="" />]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/08/01/20-gram-links-for-july-31st-07/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>1</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Scott Adams on Atheism</title>
		<link>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/07/30/scott-adams-on-atheism/</link>
		<comments>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/07/30/scott-adams-on-atheism/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 04:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[General]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[belief]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[certainty]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[dilbert]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[god]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[pascal]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[scott-adams]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20gramsoul.com/2007/07/30/scott-adams-on-atheism/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think Scott Adams (Creator of Dilbert) needs a bit of an atheist education. In his post &#8220;The Atheist Who Thought He Was God&#8220;, he makes two common misunderstandings/fallacies relating to Atheism. Can you spot them? Perhaps there are more, but I think they boil down to the following: Few, if any, atheists claim to [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://20gramsoul.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/dilbert.jpg" alt="Dilbert" style="float: right" />I think Scott Adams (Creator of Dilbert) needs a bit of an atheist education. In his post &#8220;<a href="http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/07/the-atheist-who.html" title="The Atheist Who Thought He Was God @ The Dilbert Blog">The Atheist Who Thought He Was God</a>&#8220;, he makes two common misunderstandings/fallacies relating to Atheism. Can you spot them?</p>
<p>Perhaps there are more, but I think they boil down to the following:</p>
<ol>
<li> Few, if any, atheists claim to be 100% sure that God does not exist. (99.99999% IS good enough)</li>
<li>Pascal&#8217;s Wager (which Adams&#8217; post is based on &#8211; although perhaps not knowingly) doesn&#8217;t account for the multitude of beings which claim punishment for non-belief. Of course the other <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager#Rebuttals" title="Pascal's Wager - Rebuttals @ Wikipedia">fallacies of Pascal&#8217;s wager</a> are equally present in Adams&#8217; post.</li>
</ol>
<img src="http://20gramsoul.com/?ak_action=api_record_view&id=81&type=feed" alt="" />]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/07/30/scott-adams-on-atheism/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>6</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>&#8220;Atheist&#8221; as a label</title>
		<link>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/07/30/atheist-as-a-label/</link>
		<comments>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/07/30/atheist-as-a-label/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 01:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[General]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[belief]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[deaf]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[god]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[labels]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[negative]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20gramsoul.com/2007/07/30/atheist-as-a-label/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I started thinking after reading this comment &#8211; why do atheists feel the need to call themselves atheists at all? Certainly a hard/strong atheist would be justified in doing so since they have a specific belief to describe, but since most of us do not explicitly deny the possibility of God&#8217;s existence (and rather, claim [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I started thinking after reading <a href="http://www.notquiteblue.net/rosabelle/?p=50#comment-171" title="Comment on Types of Atheism">this comment</a> &#8211; why do atheists feel the need to call themselves atheists at all? Certainly a <a href="http://20gramsoul.com/2007/07/15/soft-atheist-hard-agnostic/" title="Soft Atheist, Hard Agnostic @ 20 gram Soul">hard/strong atheist</a> would be justified in doing so since they have a specific belief to describe, but since most of us do not explicitly deny the possibility of God&#8217;s existence (and rather, claim that we simply &#8220;have no belief in God&#8221;), why should we have a label like this at all?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t go around calling myself an &#8220;a-redhead&#8221; or an &#8220;a-woman&#8221;, or saying that I have &#8220;a-green&#8221; eyes, I&#8217;m not &#8220;a-artistic&#8221; or &#8220;a-Swahili-speaking&#8221; (feel free to translate these words into Greek for the proper effect). Similarly, a Deaf person wouldn&#8217;t go around calling themselves &#8220;a-hearing&#8221;<sup>1</sup>. Why, then, do atheists insist on using a commonly misunderstood negative label<sup>2</sup> to describe their lack of belief in God? Aren&#8217;t we just &#8220;not theistic&#8221;?</p>
<p>What other <em>positive </em>words or terms could we use to describe ourselves?</p>
<ol class="footnotes"><li id="footnote_0_80" class="footnote">Although &#8220;hearing impaired&#8221; is a commonly used term, a &#8220;culturally Deaf&#8221; person who uses sign language and associates with the Deaf community would never use this term to describe themselves.</li><li id="footnote_1_80" class="footnote">&#8220;a-theism&#8221; means, &#8220;<em>without</em> a belief in God&#8221;, which, one would assume should be the default position.</li></ol><img src="http://20gramsoul.com/?ak_action=api_record_view&id=80&type=feed" alt="" />]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://20gramsoul.com/2007/07/30/atheist-as-a-label/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>8</slash:comments>
		</item>
	</channel>
</rss>

